Author Topic: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)  (Read 18101 times)

Offline JDeck

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #30 on: December 25, 2015, 11:58:48 AM »
  You can hate it if you want. I'm just saying give it a chance. Its supposed to be fun. Its a new Star Wars movie, episode 7. Its entertainment. It doesn't line up with your idea of how it should be, its not the end of the world. The old EU is gone.  I bet it does suck I get it.  New EU is coming in form of comics, games and books it won't be the same because it won't be the same. Im sure there will still be a HUGE following for the Ledgends. Now that its starting over, I kind of would like to get into it, the comics look really cool. I want the Lando and Darth Vader books, to see how they are.  I didn't think 7 was a genius movie. I found myself shaking my head at times. JJ Abrams is best known for revitalizing Star Trek. I associate his style with Star Trek for the most part.This movie was mostly propped up by the nostalgia for the OT. It was like a 32 year reunion for Star Wars characters. That's why I didn't care if Ford or Fisher were in this movie. When I see the aged Harrison Ford I immediately think of that terrible Indiana Jones movie, not Star Wars. It had too much comedy for me, like watching SpaceBalls at times. But 7 was better than I expected. It was entertaining, I didn't fall asleep. The effects were great. The new characters were awesome. In some ways I like rey better than ANH Luke or TPM Anakin. I really felt for her, scavenging for survival all alone. Surrounded by crooks and scoundrels trying to steal what little she has. Finn was pretty cool, he's just a regular guy. He did what he thought was right even if it meant the whole First Order chasing him. I like a good hero movie. Kylo Ren had awesome powers, but he did throw temper tantrums. He knew the Dark side was wrong, he struggled whether to turn back or not. He was just a little punk sometimes, they could have made him cooler like his dad.
       I do like the prequels, I have a growing appreciation for them. Certain things just irritates me, about it. The basic story was good. The effects were too much. The directing was the problem, for the most part. JarJar and the gungans just ruined ep.1 it would have been great if not for him and a few campy scenes. Also if Anakin was a little older, and he wasn't a slave who owned a pod racer and a Droid. The beginning was awesome and so were the lightsaber fights.

  Rogue one will be cool. Its going to be like a war movie, which will be sweet.
 I think 8 will be better, just because the characters are now established. Out with the old in with the new. We'll see more Skywalker less Leia probably. Both Rey and Ren will grow stronger. Hopefully no solar powered death star. If rey is  Luke's daughter it will work perfect with 1 and 4.  Because that would mean 1,4 and 7 would be about a Skywalker living in the desert coming from humble beginnings. Being swept away into the war of good vs. evil. That would fit into the saga as a cyclical theme.
       I REALLY don't like the idea of the Solo spinoff. I imagine it being like Blow, but instead of coke he's selling spice, and instead of getting locked up he gets frozen in carbonite.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2015, 07:36:13 PM by JDeck »

Offline Mandalore25

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #31 on: December 26, 2015, 06:26:28 AM »
I REALLY hope 8 is better, because, like I said, I want to like it, I agree it is new Star Wars, but I got new all the time in the EU, with a ton of flavors. Right now the new cannon is very stale, all about just before episode 4 to just before 7. I hate only one time period to read from, and of corse it's my least favorite time period, even the prequel time period I enjoy better, but nothing yet. I think I'll read Star Wars: Aftermath, in hopes it will give me more connection in episode 7, because it's the books are what gave me a strong affinity for the OT characters. Never thought highly of Han though, and I hope they don't drastically change his beginnings because I really enjoyed him being an imperial officer that tried to free all the Wookiees, but only got Chewie out. Though so far they've been overcompensating from the EU, purposefully changing things in spiteful ways. It's just odd if that were a coincidence. It just made sense to me, he claims he's good at hiding from the empire, cool reason why was that he was an officer. Hopefully Boba will make that movie great though. Rouge one is what I'm hoping to get away from jedi vs. sith, and they claim it is, and would also be nice to be immersed in a war, and not just battles to go with things deciding the fate of the war. Well the Death Star plans decides the fate still, but a soldier perspective, and not this good and evil fates stuff. Disney also says they have a hole timeline set up, I'm hoping for something I like that has deep intricate concepts with lively story that I'm used to. Kotor, and Revan have proved their popularity, hopefully they come back herd rumors somewhere about it's possibility, and Star Wars just feels incomplete without him, and the Yuuzahn Vong. Was glued to every book with them being so different and interesting. Clearly the Vong can't be the same but them getting a war would be sufficient for me. Also hoping for the Jedi order to come back into play eventually, like they mentioned about balance in Ep. 7, just wouldn't feel right if it never came back. We'll see, still hoping for something good, but Ep.7 just doesn't cut it for me.

Offline Tamer

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #32 on: December 27, 2015, 05:56:25 AM »
Mandalore25 I am pegging my problems with the new movie on my reluctance to let go of the EU too. I was so hoping to see the Thrawn Trilogy for our next set of films and I did love the verse created by most of the novels I read set in the post ROTJ Time Period. I was along hoping to see the Vong.

That being said I can also see the need to tell a new story, at least a bit, but outside of the OT each of the other movies left gaps in the story or major questions (just like E7) so I don't expect that to end anytime soon. Part of that is what gets us back in the theater to see if they answer some of those questions.

Speaking of that, where did Snoke come from? I have seen a lot of conjecture that this is Palpatine's Master, but I ain't buying that. Yet.

Offline Mandalore25

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #33 on: December 27, 2015, 09:49:49 AM »
I'll never understand Disney's choice not to use the EU, I understand books need to be tweaked to become screenplays, so I wouldn't have been mad if they tweaked the Thrawn trilogy, like Disney's anti EU propaganda says. They also could have appealed to a broader audience this was for I would have felt more included as an avid Star Wars fan reading all the books (I just feel alienated, for a few years ago I knew everything about Star Wars now I suddenly know nothing because what I know never happened), and it would have appealed to the average movie goer. Granted they would have needed to recast the OT characters, but I'm ok with that, I'm up fro remaking all the Star Wars films, they're good, but could be so much better with simple story tweaks, and better casting. Then the actors would be young enough to play the parts. On second though, it's Disney, that could be a disaster. The Vong, though, Star Wars is just to foreign without them for me, just doesn't taste good with that ingredient missing.

I feel like they brushed over too many questions to get us back in the theater, was a bit irksome considering it's Star Wars, and that's what sold the tickets in the first place, they definitely could have told us more, and we still would have went back. I don't like 7, but I'll give 8 a chance, and even if I don't like that one either, I'll probably see 9 because I saw the other two. Answering some of those questions I think would have fleshed out the story more, making it a bit better in my mind.

As for Snoke, if he were Plagueis, well in 3 it wasn't specified Plagueis was his master, but it seemed strongly implied, he seems very human, and that would ruin the empire's racism (speciesism?). Palpatine's master was an alien, and that's why he (the empire) hate's non-humans. That was a thing for a long time, way before Plagueis's book, maybe even before he was named. Though under Disney, anyone else notice the empire seems suddenly not racist? Like in Rebels for example. That just ruins some depth to the empire, one of the reasons the empire was bad, without it, why fight against? Wouldn't their reign be pretty good? That's not the only reason the empire is bad, but it goes back to their base on the Nazis, giving some real world depth as well.

Offline CamoDeafie

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #34 on: December 27, 2015, 02:44:57 PM »
According to the Clone Wars tv series and the new EU materials in between Ep 3 and 4 (before Rebels); I think Darth Plagueis is indicated to be a Muun (same race as the Intergalactic Banking Clan); I have a theory on Snoke being one of Palpatine's Dark Side Adepts or Advisors that didn't die on the Death Star... a possibility is also that he was one of the Crimson Guards (Imperial Guards) a la Crimson Empire (Kir Kano's antagonist) who didn't die on the second Death Star..

Offline Goldleaderone

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2015, 06:36:12 PM »
Apparently the title for TFA was originally going to be called "Shadow of the Empire" (singular). Honestly I would have been really ticked off as Shadows was my favorite story.

http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/26/10667688/star-wars-the-force-awakens-original-title-shadow-of-the-empire
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Offline Mandalore25

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #36 on: December 28, 2015, 02:47:38 AM »
According to the Clone Wars tv series and the new EU materials in between Ep 3 and 4 (before Rebels); I think Darth Plagueis is indicated to be a Muun (same race as the Intergalactic Banking Clan); I have a theory on Snoke being one of Palpatine's Dark Side Adepts or Advisors that didn't die on the Death Star... a possibility is also that he was one of the Crimson Guards (Imperial Guards) a la Crimson Empire (Kir Kano's antagonist) who didn't die on the second Death Star..

Yes Plagueis is a Muun in the EU (he has his own book that mostly takes place before episode 1), there are other references to him canonically, but zero references to his species, allowing Disney to do whatever they want, even when they should leave certain stories alone.

One of his dark side adepts would be great, but as Disney's disdain for the EU, probably not, for it was mostly the EU that had them, though they did bring back inquisitors for Rebels. It could be a clone emperor, but same holes in that theory as well. Crimson guards aren't as badass in the new canon, I think Disney finds what Palpatine did to them to be too horrendous. A number of them were force sensitive, forced to fight to the death to ensure the strongest served, brainwashed for absolute loyalty, and some where muted to ensure they'd never speak of the emperor being a sith. The new canon indicates that none where picked for force sensitivity, if they were sensitive to the force, it would be by chance. That probably has to do with what Disney is up to with the force though, Rey suddenly being able to manipulate the force to such a degree was impossible in the EU. Anakin had the highest Midi-chlorian count ever (meaning he has the strongest connection to the force, though remember raw talent alone isn't enough, another reason training is needed), and couldn't do such things without training. In the new canon force sensitive infants can still manipulate there toys with levitation, but other than that, Disney is screwing with their own canon already. The prequels still exist, where it goes you need to be force sensitive (meaning have a high Midi-chlorian count), but still need training to consciously control the force. Are they implying Rey has a higher Midi-chlorian count than Anakin? Anakin was born from the force, unless they want Midi-chlorians not to be a thing anymore, but then anyone can become a jedi, or a sith.

Offline Tamer

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #37 on: December 28, 2015, 05:41:43 AM »
I keep thinking of Tenebrous too, but know that is wrong as well. We just all of a sudden have a new extreme Sith. Kinda wonky or just a little off. I mean you go from Palps who was the extreme evil to now having another one just pop up? I kinda thought there would be a lead up (at least to the middle movie) where we have another extreme evil bad guy. Sith like Kylo who aren't fully trained I get, but Snoke was a bit of a stretch by supreme evil bad guy standards. I think there is a book out there about that. O0

Offline CamoDeafie

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #38 on: December 28, 2015, 05:11:45 PM »
Good point about the Crimson Guards and the erasure of most of the adepts from the EU (Other than that Rebels have Inquisitors.....)
A possibility from some of the new Disney materials is that the Unknown Regions (where Luke is); is also where Rakata is, and that Snoke is a very powerful dark side user from that region, but he has been hiding his skills (look at Palpy in Ep 1-3 for example, not even the Jedi Council had a clue that he was in fact Darth Sidious until the 3rd) or his power level for a long time? It would also be a good reference since we know Obi wan and Yoda went into hiding, and no one knew about their true Force skill awareness except Darth Vader and the Emperor... and yet they did not hunt them down during the time between ep 3 and 4 (or maybe they did do that and assumed Yoda and Obi Wan died when Obi Wan took the name of Ben)

There is a rather outre theory that Rey is somehow related to the Kenobi bloodline (again, somehow.) I am not certain that it is possible, simply based on the fact that Obi Wan has not once mentioned his family in canon. It is possible he had a family somewhere; and that Rey is from that bloodline somehow (could explain her apparent ability to do jedi mind tricks on stormtroopers, as well as having a higher intuition of the living Force)

EDIT:
Someone mentioned on a different page that it doesn't seem to make sense that the lightsaber duels didn't have the techniques or artistry from the PT era; or even OT era; but the thing is, these are very inexperienced people fighting. Kylo Ren, he is explicitly stated by Snoke to have had incomplete training (telling Hux to bring Ren to Snoke to finish his training), Finn, he might have had experience in melee combat as a trooper but not as a saber dueler, and the same goes for Rey, who is more experienced with her staff, not Luke/Anakin's saber. Simple fact of Luke's New Jedi Order being wiped out some 15-20 years back by Kylo Ren and Snoke, no one's around that's got the experience of Jedi/Sith lightsaber duelling, perhaps Snoke's scar on his face was from Luke's own green saber... I noticed that Rey's staff looks very similar to the one wielded by Darth Plagueis, I wonder if it was his old staff without a saber crystal that she found on Jakku (again, a junkyard planet)?

Some close up pics of her staff shows details very similar to both Mace Windu's lightsaber hilt and Darth Maul's double hilt, as well as what seems to be a control switch on it, like a lightsaber.

Since Rey is rather skilled at using her staff against people on Jakku, it might end up that she turned it into a saber staff while under the tutelage of Luke.... this would be a good thing to see for ep 8 and 9... 
-This is assuming she still has the staff on the Millennium Falcon.

Back to Snoke; I really wonder who the heck he is...but perhaps, just perhaps... when Emperor Palpatine died, and Anakin Skywalker died, the Dark side of the Force, all that energy, went to the Unknown Regions to a darkside user, Snoke, who was rather young(maybe in his 30s or 40s?), and knew about the happenings of the galaxy and waited, and bid his time to start using the Force? Perhaps he had killed or been responsible for the Unknown Regions staying Unknown during the Imperial Era? This would give him access to the Empire's Holonet systems by way of their scout ships and chartering ships captured, and crews killed after he learned what he could from them?
Another possibility is that he was born of a Nightsister on Dathomir? (kinda-sorta canon if they consider Ewoks adventures/films to be canon)
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 05:27:20 PM by CamoDeafie »

Offline Mandalore25

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #39 on: December 28, 2015, 07:01:19 PM »
The unknown regions are in ep. 7 are clearly in the Mid Rim, they should be completely charted, though the First Order said they recovered the maps from imperial data, so it could be they were once charted, but the charts were destroyed by the empire for some reason. Sounds odd, but the empire did convince a galaxy Jedi are evil in the span of 19 years, the long lived species should have known the truth. Though as the audience we see jedi all the time, in the Star Wars universe, the common person has never seen a jedi, and they're shrouded by myth, and legend. The unknown regions "should" still be cannon, and they're past the outer rim.

Sidious being able to hide in plain site had to do with a millennium of the rule of two power growth through hiding in the shadows (why yoda says the dark side clouds everything, it was purposeful), granted that's EU information, so Disney will probably change it to something less meaningful. Obi-Wan, and Yoda were able to literally hide as single jedi easily, neither would have a pull of the force strong enough to notice even flying by the planet, and they were on secluded planets, the chances of an imperial force user (able to sense them) finding them would be nearly impossible. So Snoke could be random on his own, and go noticed by jedi, and the empire, but I truly hope not. It would add another miraculous event to their string of them so far in seven. I want him to have a meaningful, and deep back story.

One thing I've been thinking about with Snoke is that notice we only see a hologram of him, he may not even look like that, or sound like that. He could have an image produced to hid his identity, and it wouldn't surprise me if Kylo never even met him before, for as far as I can tell, Kylo has the skills of a jedi apprentice, and a sloppy one at that. Just a thought, would be interesting to have a fake out.

Offline Tamer

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #40 on: December 29, 2015, 03:54:22 AM »
I am loving the talk in here. My pal Chad (Lucasclones) started a great chat page up on Facebook. If anyone would like to continue their chat there I would be glad to add you (just need your Facebook Handle). There has been a ton of great discussion there even just last night. I think you folks would love it. Just paste your Facebook Handle here and I will add you.

On the discussion note, Chad and I have also decided to rev up Custom Action Figure News again to do a podcast Thursday evening starting around 6pm Eastern. All are welcome to join and I will check this thread for new comments to talk about while live. You will be able to view this video directly on the front page, our YouTube Channel, FB, Twitter, wherever the YT Link will play.


Offline Tamer

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2015, 02:14:09 PM »
New time Friday evening starting around 6:45 to 7 PM



I will be using a lot of what has been shared here when we podcast. If there is anything else you would like us to ask, discuss, etc. let me know and we will try to get to it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 02:31:31 PM by Tamer »

Offline JDeck

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2015, 07:52:13 PM »
I want to know who the Old Man was in the beginning. He knew Leia when she was known as princess. Are we supposed to know who he is? Is he from the OT? "Lor San Tekka? I don't know who he could be. I need to read the book evidently he's some kind of underground agent. They said he was an old friend which strongly implies we (audience) know him. Just real confusing.
   Why would Ren want to contact Vader if Vader converted to the light side. Luke probably told him the story a million times how he got his Dad to kill the Emperor. Was he brainwashed by Snoke into believing Luke was lying? No real answer, Just seems weird.
      Did Ren know who Rey was even though rey didn't know who rey was? He threw that temper tantrum, when he found out a girl was helping fin. Disney almost confirms rey is Luke's daughter in a video game preview. He calls her cousin.  At any rate looking forward to watching the podcast, sounds pretty cool.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 05:52:49 AM by JDeck »

Offline Mandalore25

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2016, 08:08:16 AM »
Back on Ultracold plasma, the only things I can substantiate against it's possibility (had to fact check, been a while since I've taken physics), if a lightsaber were ultracold, it would affect air around it in a noticeable way, by cooling the air around it, that air would mix with the warm, making it seem as though it were emitting a fog, with modern tech it needs to be contained, and if the blade where cold it would not make other objects emit light as it does when it cut's through things. Theoretically it could cut through things by ultracooling the atoms, which has proven to speed up some atoms faster than at room temperature (heat causes atoms to speed up, cold slows them down, typically) causing displacement, and there where cold sabers in the EU, but the mechanics were brushed over for the occurrence I'm thinking of was in a video game. A heated plasma with a significant amount of charge carriers, using an electromagnetic field to keep the blade shape (Plasma is a state of matter like gas as in it has no shape, but is strongly influenced by electromagnetic fields when it has many atoms carrying a charge) would be most logical in comparison to real world tech, as the cold plasma was suggested by that comparison. Still it I feel the blade is too well contained with all the electromagnetic fields being generated in the Star Wars Universe. Other arguments against cauterization, were Luke having the circulation cut off after his hand was cut off, which does not take place, unless referring to the device placed over his nub, but like I said, you still bandage burns. If you watch episode 5 it doesn't bleed, if lightsbers caused any bleeding Luke would have died of blood loss before he was found (was cut from the wrist 10-15 mins to bleed out), his shirt he hid his nub in would have been bloodstained, and you actually get a pretty good look at his nub while he's hanging under cloud city (which he would have passed out by then from bloodloss), where it has no blood, but also has no prosthetic on, so it looks like a healed nub. Further proof is when Leia is shot in ep. 6, her poncho starts on fire, yet to further the blood argument Han's hands are bloody from Leia's wound. I think looking at all the evidence, it's left for the director to choose to help base the tone for the scene, like how JDeck said the prequels would have been a bloodbath if everyone bled, and how the dead solders are never bloody for they want you too feel the tide of the battle, and not the tragedy of death, or massacre as the camera brushes past them. Though as an avid Star Wars fan that's read the books, including the informational ones like the Essential Guide to Alien Species cover to cover, it leaves a bitter taste being undefined, no matter how logical from a director standpoint.

Offline JDeck

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2016, 08:25:25 AM »
Its physically impossible for most star wars things to exist in reality that's why its a fantasy not exactly sci-fi. I brought up the cold plasma to make a point that, not all lasers are super hot, its a common misconception. I like a little blood in war movies, makes it seem real. Certain scenes in TFA needed it.  Like I said its pretty difficult to die from a shot wound without bleeding. If you don't like the movie that's wonderful. There's plenty not to like about it without ripping it scene by scene. At the end of the day it wasn't an absolute travesty, like I thought it would be. I thought it would end up being like the Marvel movies, which I don't really care for. That's my opinion though.  If you make piddly excuses not to enjoy the movie, you won't enjoy the movie.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 11:07:34 AM by JDeck »