Topic: The People vs. George Lucas - Did Lucas spoil your childhood?

[hangarbay94]

The People vs. George Lucas... First off its a must see, very funny with some unashamed Star Wars love.

The most interesting point raised was older fans dissappointment with the Prequals. Some saying they had the effect of raping the wonderful childhood memories by ruining the the original saga. Others made the point that the new generation of fans preferred the Prequals so Lucas achieved his goals.

It poses the question: should Lucad have made films that appealed to an older audience or for kids... Did you have your childhood raped or do you think Lucas justifiably made the Prequals for a new generation?

[smeagol92055]

I think the prequels are terribly flawed films, and I really dislike the retroactive meddling Lucas has done to the original trilogy.  I understand that they are his films, he created them and gave them to us, but on that same note, it so enthralled a generation that I really don't believe it's possible to say that the films belong to him anymore; they belong to the fans, and for him to go back and continuously meddle with them to bring them in line with the more CGI-happy and 3-year-old friendly feel of the prequels... that disappoints me as a lifelong fan.

I just want the ORIGINAL, UNALTERED trilogy, cleaned up.
I'd say that Adywan's Star Wars Revisited project has vastly improved over Lucas' re-re-re-releases in every possible way by keeping in what made the originals so very great and cutting out 99% of all of the changes Lucas made afterwards.

...But getting back to the original topic, the prequels suck.  Revenge of the Sith is the only partially-decent film of the lot, and even then it's fundamentally broken as a narrative.

[hangarbay94]

Smeagol,

A very well put reply.

I guess I'm still in the "I forgive Lucas as he created Star Wars in the first place" catagory, though what you say does ring true. If I can accuse George Lucas of anything, it's selfishness.

Personally the Prequals did not impress me. Episode 2 was a complete dissappointment and Ep3 was ok. All of the films are Star Wars but there is definately something missing for me. Saying that my kids prefer the Prequals, and when I was a kid my father hated Star Wars, so that's got to be worth something in this argument. The prequals appeal to the kids, in the same way that the Original Trilogy appealed to us when we were kids. Look at the Ewoks for Christ's sake, the Emperor's Elite Stormtroopers being overwhemed by stone throwing teddy bears....really?!?! For me the true magic still lies with Star Wars A New Hope and Empire, both of which have to be considered as two of the finest movies ever made.  

Did Lucas ruin the OT... in my opinion yes, that was my thought after I saw Episode 2. Did he destroy my childhood? no, but he put a dark cloud over one of my best memories. Am I angry...no. Lucas still managed to create two of my favourite movies and a third that is a perfeclty acceptable conclusion to the three. I still need my Star Wars fix after 30 + years and I still get enjoyment from the experience.

The only good thing to come out of the prequals is the Clone Wars TV show, which I think is a beautiful work of art with some wonderful story telling.

I agree with you about ownership. Lucas is the creator but he doesn't own Star Wars , I think he owes the long term fans something a bit better than the prequals and a load of re-releases. We need something for us, and if he can't give it to us I am sure someone else will be able to pick up the torch. There has got to be a talented film maker out there who is as passionalte about Star Wars as we are, who could make one hell of a sequal...if only George wasn't so selfish with his creation.

[smeagol92055]

You know, I won't lie; I walked out of the theater all three times for the prequels jabbering like an excitable monkey about what I had just seen.  Episode I was amazing, Episode II was huge in its sweep with a bittersweet love story, and Episode III was a tour de force (lol) of war drama and white-knuckle action.

...It was the next morning, and the following weeks, that it sunk in just how shoddy the story was.

I will say that when Lucas re-released the original trilogy in theaters back in the '90s, I had a much different feeling walking out of the theaters.  It actually made me feel more connected to my father, who was a HUGE Star Wars fan before he passed away in 1989; he instilled the love of the trilogy in me as a small child and after I waited in line for hours to see ANH in the theater, I walked out of the thing with tears in my eyes, knowing how my father must have felt in 1977, seeing it on the big screen for the first time.

That is something that the prequels just don't have.

[hangarbay94]

It's interesting that your Father loved Star Wars,  mine just called it "Star Bores" .

So for me and you, and so many more of us, Lucas has let us down. And even though he set himself and almost impossible task, he could, and should, have done much better.

Now he owes us... he owes us big time. Star Wars has become bigger than the creator, he needs to let go of his feelings and listen to the Force!

[smeagol92055]

I couldn't agree more.  Heck, just searching Google for Star Wars fan films turns up over 5.5 MILLION results; it's clear that there are other filmmakers out there that are dying to play with the toys Papa Lucas gave us.  When he passes away, Lucasfilm is going to undergo some RADICAL changes... not the least of which is going to certainly be more original, big-budget Star Wars properties, done by the fans who fuel the whole thing, who just want to pay homage to one of the greatest cinematic sagas ever committed to celluloid.

[Phatty]

Things we experienced as children, will not, and cannot, be reproduced in adulthood.  Our lifelong experiences just will not allow for that.  Frankly, watch Return of the Jedi again, and tell me honestly that it is as amazing to you now as it was then.  You know in your heart it was not.  Those damn Ewoks are no better than the Gungans, the swordplay between Luke and Vader was terrible, and Luke continuously acted like a child playing grown up.  However, it's still my favorite of them all. 

That being said, the Prequels cannot hold as much nostalgia or fondness for them as the Original Trilogy did.  Lucas held true to his formula, just 22 years apart.  The story is fine, in my book.  I did enjoy seeing how young Anakin became the twisted Darth Vader.  Sure, I'd have preferred to have the Postquels (?) to see the aftermath of the Fall of the Empire, with Luke's advancement to Jedi Master charged with the task of rebuilding the Jedi Legacy.  Instead, we got to see how terrible of an actor Jake Lloyd was.  My biggest disappointment was how whiny Anakin was throughout all 3 movies, and the death of Darth Maul, who I think should have been slain by Anakin in Episode III.

So all in all, I guess my answer is No, I do not feel like my childhood was "raped."  I think we have all been so lovestruck with the franchise since we were kids, we expected to have that same reactions with the prequels, but that's just not possible.  We've grown up, seen hundreds of movies since, experienced more in our lives than we could have imagined.  I do agree that he should have left the originals alone, but that's not enough to condemn the man.  I truly think too many fanboys are so wrapped up in their self appointed superiority complexes, that they've chosen to attack the man for what he's done.  And I bet those same fanboys own all of the movies on multiple formats, along with many of the toys, video games, and memorabilia.  Seems silly to me, really.  In the end, the experience is what you want to take from it, and what you want it to be.  Me?  I'm pretty happy!

[hangarbay94]

Another good set of points, it's good to hear an established fan shine a positive light on this.

It's funny, because although the Ewoks were the weakest part of the OT, I loved the Endor setting.

I was 14 when ROTJ came out and I remember not being so excited as I'd been when I saw the first two films, so I guess your point about experiences and age getting in the way ring true. Saying that how do you explain Smeagol's point that his father was a huge Star Wars fan after seeing it for the first time back in 77? He was an adult and he "got it"... Are you saying as adults we are incapable of having an imagination, or having a sence of wonder of amazing things? Are we incapable of deep experiences?

Maybe those questions are for psycologists...

[smeagol92055]

I just despised that the Ewoks lived on what was supposed to be Kashyyk, while Kashyyk was presented as a FREAKING SWAMP PLANET.

How miserable of a failure was THAT on-screen?

[Phatty]

Endor WAS beautiful, no doubt!

In no way am I saying that as adults, we are incapable of imagination.  This site alone is proof of that!  We do become jaded by our experiences, sure, and there's an exception to every rule.  Overall, I think we want to cling to our positive experiences as children, because in the real world of adults, there is far less wonderment around every corner.  Sad, but true. 

If anything, I think Dave Filoni has done far worse.  Ahsoka Tano and her obnoxious lingo irritated me enough that I stopped watching the cartoon altogether!  BUT, it does accomplish the task of bringing in new generations to our marvelous Star Wars Universe that we all cherish so much.

[Tamer]

Wow, I really enjoyed reading all of the points here.

I think for me I can do away with the prequels except for one thing I think they did very well: establishing Clone Troopers.

I think those characters in and of themselves saved the prequels in my eyes. Of course they don't hold a candle to my love for TESB or all the the OT Films, but I think those characters and their lot in life struck a chord with all of us established OT Fans. I still find myself, every now and then, picking up an odd Clone Trooper Character here and there or see one of the customs here of a new Trooper and just sit in amazement.

Take a look at one of those Sideshow Clones and tell me they aren't one of the coolest things out there. So, I agree with most of the points here and yes I do think much of the prequel allure is lost on me, but bring on more and more Clones I say!

[CloneSniper78]

Great conversation guys!

I'm an OT guy too. I was just old enough to catch Return of the Jedi. I was 5 when it came out. I loved everything about that movie. Eventhough now as an adult I do think the Ewoks are rediculous and no way in hell should they have kicked the stormies butt. But, when I saw Wicket and Logray on the new vintage cards I had to buy them. That is also the case for the two versions of Jedi Luke that have come out. The kid in me had to have them.

Anyway, back to the movies, I think Hayden Christensen's acting kind of ruined the Prequals. Episode I was totally geared towards kids. Which I think was planned to get a whole new generation of SW fans. That is ok, but turns off the old SW fans. Lastly, I think the tinkering with the OT is kind of lame. If it aint broke, then don't fix it!

A few more points I want to throw in. I think it's kind of funny how the cartoon seems more dark then any of the films. (More death and cold blooded killing) I'm not complaining though, the cartoon is pretty cool. Anakin is more the way he should have been in the movie. I didn't like Ahsoka at first but she has grown on me.

I would like to see another trilogy. Ep. 7,8,9. You could even use Mark Hamil and gang. I would also like to see some kind of spinoff for Boba Fett. I would love to see some movies or even a tv series just about Boba. Even a Boba vs. Predator movie would be totally cool.

[Mando Assasin]

CS78-that story was great. Your right that'd be a epic book.

Phatty- I totally agree jake did a horrible job acting

[Psyclone]

I'm not a huge fan of the prequels but some of it is ok.  I have to admit that I don't watch them and I've even changed the channel a number of times when they were on TV.  I do like the clones but that's about it.  The PT is just not my thing.

As for the tinkering of the OT, sure it's Lucas's work and he can do what he wants but I liken it to music or a piece of artwork.  When I first heard a song and liked it, I liked it as it was.  You can come in later and clean up the audio but if you start adding notes and changing the chorus then it's just not the same song whether I like the changes or not.  Go ahead, make a remix, an extended version, etc... and I might even like it  but, again,  it's just not the same song.  A New Hope is not the same "Star Wars" movie that I saw when I was a kid.  Many things that I loved are now gone such as the small western-like town of Mos Eisley and Tatooine as  a whole, the gunslinging Han Solo who shoots first…. and I could go on.  They may not seem like important changes but to me those things are what made me like it and were the things that connected me to the film.

Anyway,  I'm just glad that I'm in a good enough place where I can complain about this type of stuff.

[Phatty]

Anyway,  I'm just glad that I'm in a good enough place where I can complain about this type of stuff.

That's what we were shooting for!