Topic: The People vs. George Lucas - Did Lucas spoil your childhood?

[hangarbay94]

Yes, I am also of the mind that I was lucky enough to have seen Star Wars first time around, it was the biggest high I've ever experienced.

Lucas should listen to his fans though and loosen his grip on his creation. I wish we had a new movie that is aimed at us older fans and give us our Star Wars back. In the meantime this thread has prompted me to scour the FAN EDIT scene as there have been some great re-edits of the Prequals. Adiwan definitely gave Star Wars back to me so Perhaps I can put together my own Saga and post the links here.

J

[Tamer]

Wow, I posted the link over on our FB Page and was asked if I was a retard! LOL, well I probably am, but people sure do feel strongly either way about this. I got rid of all the hate over there and am guessing rape was probably a rather strong word to use, but I do sometimes feel too that we should just leave well enough alone when it comes to our movies sometimes.

I love the sound of your own saga Jules.

[Laojax]

Definitely second the notion that ol' George needs to loosen his grip. One of the things that made the OT so strong was that it was a collaborative effort between him and guys like McQuarrie, Lorne Peterson and Ben Burtt (and later Lawrence Kasdan and Irvin Kershner). What made the most impact on people in 1977? The fact that the story adapted elements of Kurosawa? Prolly not! The spaceship designs, the hum of the lightsabers, etc were the things that made people take notice. And a lot of those innovations came from not having an infinite budget, having studio suits and even colleagues in the position to criticize his ideas, whereas now I get the impression that he's surrounded by yes-men who tell him his every bowel movement is solid gold, if you'll forgive the expression.  I kind of feel like creativity thrives in the face of adversity, so literally being able to do anything (or having delusions of grandeur) will cause the art to suffer. I'm reiterating some points that others have made previously, but I'm glad I got to sound off a bit on this topic.

[mb421]

Maybe I'm the crazy one here. I've been a Star Wars fan since I was 6 years old. I was born in '85 so no I didn't see the originals on the big screen. But I did see the unaltered version 100's of times and knew those movies like the back of my hand by the time the SE came out. When I saw them and the new changes I loved them all. (sure with time I began to see the flaws in SOME of the changes) And the prequels came along. I was 12 when Ep. I and I was floored by it. I loved every minute of it! Same story with Ep 2 and 3. In the years since I've gone back and seen the flaws in the prequels and have gone through in my mind "What I would've done differently" First of all Anakin wounld'nt have bee as young as he was. I would've made him 14-15ish. JarJar was a little annoying as I got older but he's NEVER ruined the movie for me. Other things I wouldve done was have Padme live through Anakins attack on her, but then have a flash fowards of sorts to show her funeral and then include a shot of a little girl walking along the funeral procession. (The little girl of course being Leia) That would at least "show" Liea did spend a little time with her real mother. There are some other small tweeks I would make here and there but overall I would leave them the same. The OT changes that GL has made honestly don't bother me much. The only one that even comes close to sorta bothering me is the Vader "NOOO" at the end of ROTJ. And when I say bother I mean, I just liked it the way it was but don't really care that it has changed. And true the Jabba scene doesn't really work and blah blah blah. But ALL of the changes have been cosmetic. Nothing has changed the story of any of the movies, I mean, does a shockwave from an exploding planet really just ruin the movie for you? That can't be anything else but being angry at the fact that it doesn't look like it did when they were kids. It does not change a thing. And honestly if the Prequel are so terrible then so are the Originals. YES I SAID IT! The originals are just as flawed as the Prequels. "Anakin is waaayy too whiney"! Oh and Luke wasn't. Luke whined the WHOLE time in ANH and was a bit whinny in ESB too. Jar Jar is annoying. Threepio didn't get on your nerves at least once? But like I said maybe it's just me, Adywan can take a scene and re order the whole thing but GL adds a shockwave and your childhood is raped. (Just to let you know I downloaded his edit and loved it! Amazing work) I'm not saying the changes were needed. THEY WEREN'T! But were they really just a raping of childhood. Just because an x-wing swings left instead of swinging right? Or that theres a shockwave around the DS explosions? And did the hue of a star destroyer engine just totally kill you? Most of you will say yes...and probably look at me as a GL tool.  So I'm a tool because I don't mind the changes, bc I enjoyed the prequels as much as I did as the OT? (I hated that Clone Wars cartoon thing though). So am I not a true SW fan because I like the prequels and think the PT hate is utterly rediculous? It just doesn't make any sense to me.

[Tamer]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mb421 welcome to ISY and it is so interesting to read your opinoin and you have some very fine points. I like the fact that everyone here has argued their points and not directed any animosity or anger toward a person and is respecting their opinions.

I do understand what you are saying mb and I happened to really like the Clone Wars Anime with Genndy Tartakovsky as it showed us some really unique Clones, but once again thats just my opinion and that and twenty five cents won't get you a phone call nowadays.

[zedhatch]

I've never been a "Raped my childhood" kind of guy but a few things stuck out to me just now. 

The OT changes that GL has made honestly don't bother me much. The only one that even comes close to sorta bothering me is the Vader "NOOO" at the end of ROTJ. And when I say bother I mean, I just liked it the way it was but don't really care that it has changed. And true the Jabba scene doesn't really work and blah blah blah. But ALL of the changes have been cosmetic. Nothing has changed the story of any of the movies, I mean, does a shockwave from an exploding planet really just ruin the movie for you?

I'm just going to start with the fact that this is the first time I have EVER heard anyone complain (or imply there were complaints) about the shockwave.

But while your specific examples are cosmetic, there are sceanes that do alter the story, Han shooting first, Wampa being clearly seen (Changes the entire tone of the first sceane of ESB), and while it can be argued Jabba's band is just cosmetic, the sequence does change to mood and tone of Jabba's palace.  The Jabba sceane you mentioned is kind of redundant as it says exactly what was said with the Greedo sceane before it, again redundancy does effect the story. 
 

And honestly if the Prequel are so terrible then so are the Originals. YES I SAID IT! The originals are just as flawed as the Prequels. "Anakin is waaayy too whiney"! Oh and Luke wasn't. Luke whined the WHOLE time in ANH and was a bit whinny in ESB too. Jar Jar is annoying. Threepio didn't get on your nerves at least once?

Well, Luke never tried to speak with such a fake british accent.  Seriously the accent got on my nerves more than the whineyness.  What was up with that I have no idea, Vader never had such an accent through his synth thingy, Jake loydd (who I found more annoying than Jar Jar just for bad acting) never did either.  Hayden is a decent actor (I've seen him in other stuff and enjoyed him) but his role as Anakin was really forced, he sounded worse than me trying to fake an accent, seriously, and everytime he spoke it pulled you right out of the moment. 

All that said there are things I like about the prequels, new Jedi, new Bounty Hunters, expanding of worls like Courisant, Kamino, ect.  Even Battle Droids for the most part (At least in consept) 

But there is a ton I really don't like as well.  Red Letter Media has a series of reviews that really hit a ton of things I don't like and I could go all day, but here are the biggies.

Lots of flash, little substance.  Ep 2 really personifies this, I kind of liked the end battle but utlmatly it was just pretty pictures with little emotional investment.

Speaking of emotional investment, lightsaber battles.  There was literally little to no emotional investment with those fights (one could argue Obi Wan and Akakin in Ep 3 had some, but that was it).  Vader and Kenobi had emotional investment (even if we didn't fully understand it at first) and every time Luke faced Vader there was an emotional undertone (for different reasons each time).  With the prequels it was all flash and nothing with it.  The whole thing didn't resonate with me at all.  And don't get me started on Mexican jumping bean Yoda.

Jar-Jar, not cause he was annoying, but he really didn't seem to fit in with Star Wars.  He just seemed so far off the track from previous characters that he seemed to be from another movie, thankfully his role was lessoned, but he really bugged me (However, not nearly as bad as Jake Loyd's terrible acting-YEOCH).

There was Anakin's turn, Lucas internalized it too much IMO.  Really there are people who still argue that Anakin turned because he wasn't granted Jedi Master rank (which Anakin's protests are a huge plot hole as he said his not achieving the rank was unpresetend, even though Lucas's own press releases/information for Episode 1 Stated Ki-Adi-Mundi was only a Jedi Knight as well and was on the consol).

But MOST of all, my biggest gripe was the Jedi itself, they came accross as zealots and tyrants (stealling kids into a life of seritude at a young age with NO choice by the children, and from what we learned of Dooku's story it is apparently VERY hard to leave the Order once inducted.  That's not even getting into the whole oath of celebacy thing that everyone in the EU seems to rally against but ultimatly created the whole problem).  While I like the Jedi Characters overall, the order just really made them look bad, in fact I'm one of those that really thinks they were the real bad guys (Hey they do bad guy things like lie, manipulate, keep secrets that are unessessary, ect).  The Jedi could have been presented much better as well IMO. 

[mb421]

Yeah, I didn't know anyone complained about the shockwave either but I've seen several post and some of my friends act like that shockwave ruins the whole trilogy. The Wampa attack, Jabbas band, Solo shoots first; they changed the mood. But do they change the story? No they don't. Except for the Solo scene, the Wampa scene and the Jabba band scene could be taken out and it wouldn't affect the overall story too much. Do I like the new changes? Not really. The Wampa scene I can live with bc I do like seeing the creature. The new song in Jabbas palace, yeah I don't like that (but then I wasn't all that fond of the old one either). And I'd prefer if Solo shot first like before. But these don't ruin the whole movie for me. NONE of the changes ruin the whole movie for me.
 The lighsaber fights in the OT have emotional weight to them because they were all personal fights. Ben and Vader was essentailly a rematch. Luke and Vader, Luke was (in his mind) fighting the man who killed his father and Ben. It was to avenge them. And thats why that fight was so dangerous for Luke bc he was fighting with anger. The Luke vs Vader fight in ROTJ was very personal bc I've always felt that NEITHER of them wanted to fight each other. Vader was only doing it bc of the Emporer, like he was some programed droid. And Luke was just protecting himself. The fights in the PT weren't personal on that level. Jinn and Obi vs Maul wasn't a personal fight(well maybe for Maul a little bit) That fight didn't become personal until Jinn was killed and then it became personal for Obi Wan. I thought the fight between Anakin and Dooku had some emotion behind it. But again it wasn't that personal a fight. Most of the lightsaber battles in the PT weren't personal like they were in the OT. They weren't part of some vendetta or anything. It was simply good vs evil, which is what the WHOLE saga is about isn't it?
 The Jedi were zealots. Thats why they had to die. The PT Jedi were the good guys with bad practices. And that fits with the theme of the PT. The good guys being so high on themselves that they can't see the snake in the grass about to strike. The Jedi were so wraped up in tradition and code that they couldn't figure what was going on until they were deflecting blaster shots from their own troops. Padme was clinging so tightly to the government she loved that she indirectly choked the life out of it. And again with Anakin whom she loved so much that she couldn't even let herself see the monster he was becoming. Theres a lot going on in the PT. There is substance there or there is the same lack of substance there as in the OT. I don't know why everyone hates the PT so much. I'm just as drawn  to the PT as the OT. And I've introduced several people to SW by showing them the saga in order and no one ever complains about the PT. So what is it with us?
 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and mb421 welcome to ISY and it is so interesting to read your opinoin and you have some very fine points. I like the fact that everyone here has argued their points and not directed any animosity or anger toward a person and is respecting their opinions.

I do understand what you are saying mb and I happened to really like the Clone Wars Anime with Genndy Tartakovsky as it showed us some really unique Clones, but once again thats just my opinion and that and twenty five cents won't get you a phone call nowadays.

The Clone Wars I was talking about was the 3d one where Anakin has an apprentice. The Tartikofski 2D version is AWESOME!!! I love that cartoon and count it along the SW saga as EP 2.25 and Ep 2.75. And I'm glad too that their is no animosity here as well. I do understand not liking the changes to the T. I'd just prefer GL left it alone. But he didn't. But fortunately (for me anyway) the changes don't really bother me. As far as the PT. I still think it just stems from the fact that it did not fit what we as fans imagined for 16+ years (9 for me) about what happened before ANH. But I could just be a weirdo. I mean Im one of the few that I know that loves Star Trek and Star Wars equally!

[zedhatch]

Yeah, I didn't know anyone complained about the shockwave either but I've seen several post and some of my friends act like that shockwave ruins the whole trilogy.

OK I don't mean to call you out on this statement, but you just contradicted yourself, which is it, they complained or didn't?

The Wampa attack, Jabbas band, Solo shoots first; they changed the mood. But do they change the story? No they don't. Except for the Solo scene, the Wampa scene and the Jabba band scene could be taken out and it wouldn't affect the overall story too much. Do I like the new changes? Not really. The Wampa scene I can live with bc I do like seeing the creature. The new song in Jabbas palace, yeah I don't like that (but then I wasn't all that fond of the old one either). And I'd prefer if Solo shot first like before. But these don't ruin the whole movie for me. NONE of the changes ruin the whole movie for me.

I didn't say they ruined the movie, just that they did change the film's (and yes Solo shooting first does effect his story and character), The mood with Wampa and Jabba does effect the tone which also effects the story, at least in those parts. 

 

The lighsaber fights in the OT have emotional weight to them because they were all personal fights. Ben and Vader was essentailly a rematch. Luke and Vader, Luke was (in his mind) fighting the man who killed his father and Ben. It was to avenge them. And thats why that fight was so dangerous for Luke bc he was fighting with anger. The Luke vs Vader fight in ROTJ was very personal bc I've always felt that NEITHER of them wanted to fight each other. Vader was only doing it bc of the Emporer, like he was some programed droid. And Luke was just protecting himself. The fights in the PT weren't personal on that level. Jinn and Obi vs Maul wasn't a personal fight(well maybe for Maul a little bit) That fight didn't become personal until Jinn was killed and then it became personal for Obi Wan. I thought the fight between Anakin and Dooku had some emotion behind it. But again it wasn't that personal a fight. Most of the lightsaber battles in the PT weren't personal like they were in the OT. They weren't part of some vendetta or anything. It was simply good vs evil, which is what the WHOLE saga is about isn't it?

Well when you get down to it, almost any story can be argued to be good vs. evil (even when those lines are not clearly defined as much as in SW).  So just saying the whole saga is about Good vs. evil isn't a very compelling statement.  The fact is that the Lightsaber battles had nothing to them in the PT, most of what you just said was inferred rather than exponged opon in the PT.  However, in the OT you got something behind those battles. 

 

The Jedi were zealots. Thats why they had to die. The PT Jedi were the good guys with bad practices. And that fits with the theme of the PT. The good guys being so high on themselves that they can't see the snake in the grass about to strike. The Jedi were so wraped up in tradition and code that they couldn't figure what was going on until they were deflecting blaster shots from their own troops. Padme was clinging so tightly to the government she loved that she indirectly choked the life out of it. And again with Anakin whom she loved so much that she couldn't even let herself see the monster he was becoming. Theres a lot going on in the PT. There is substance there or there is the same lack of substance there as in the OT. I don't know why everyone hates the PT so much. I'm just as drawn  to the PT as the OT.

There is alot going on, and most of it is internalized which is the big problem.  How exactly did Padme choke the life out of the Republic?  I missed something somewhere there. 

The best example is Anakin himself stairing off in Ep 3.  Lucas (in the commentary) points out he is thinking of Padme, however he mucked up the story so much before that (with things like "I should be a master.") that the sceane doesn't play out that way.  It's bad direction, bad scripting and bad storytelling and COULD have been much better (and similar theames have been done in past movies much more effectively). 

The the thing about Jedi being zealots-Lucas has said the opposite, which again shows how he didn't really think about it this round. 

Another great example, in the ep 1 extras when Lucas is walking around the designs look at the designers.  They actually look a bit scared and when Lucas says a few oddball things you can see people want to say something but are afraid.  He has surrounded himself with yes men, that sequence makes it clear. 

And I've introduced several people to SW by showing them the saga in order and no one ever complains about the PT. So what is it with us?

Here is a better question, why does liking or not liking the PT automatically infer something "wrong?"  Can we not have differing opinions?

As far as the PT. I still think it just stems from the fact that it did not fit what we as fans imagined for 16+ years (9 for me) about what happened before ANH. But I could just be a weirdo. I mean Im one of the few that I know that loves Star Trek and Star Wars equally!

Actually I like ST and SW equally overall. 

But I do think there is more going on than expectations as well, in fact I would say that there is a whole mood to the saga that is missed in the PT.  A prime example is the difference in spaceships.  SW had a worn and used feel to them where as the PT seemed much, much cleaner.  Now it's easy to argue that the Naboo ships would be that way as they were primarly cerimonial, but it seemed almost EVERY ship in the PT is super clean and just came out of space dock, even the warships that were supposed to have been used extensively, the droids 9tanks ect) also looked clean and new (until destroyed at least), the speeders, even the Tuskin village in Ep 2 looked clean and shiney in comparison to the Tantoine of 1977, Mos Espa's junk yard looked pretty crisp as well (especially the pod from 2001 that was there LOL), even Mustifar (which was supposed to be dealing with extreame temps) looked freshly built.  Point is the whole PT was like that IMO.  As a result it just never fit with the rest

[mb421]

"OK I don't mean to call you out on this statement, but you just contradicted yourself, which is it, they complained or didn't?"
Yeah, I didn't know before hand that anyone even cared about the shockwave until I heard the complaints about it over the years. I thought I was clear on that, sorry.


"Well when you get down to it, almost any story can be argued to be good vs. evil (even when those lines are not clearly defined as much as in SW).  So just saying the whole saga is about Good vs. evil isn't a very compelling statement.  The fact is that the Lightsaber battles had nothing to them in the PT, most of what you just said was inferred rather than exponged opon in the PT.  However, in the OT you got something behind those battles. "
 
Well can't that be said for the OT too? The saber battles in ROTS were personal to me weather they were fully explained or not. AOTC yeah, not so much and neither TPM so much. But still think those fights weren't on any personal level, therefore you wouldn't the same emotion behind them as you would the L vs V fight. IMHO anyway.
 

[mb421]

But dude I have nothing against your or your opinion. Honestly some of this comes from the fact that a forum I was on, I was sorta "bullied" for being a prequel fan. (and an Trek fan) Nothing bad, just annoying. If you don't like them thats cool. I'd just like to know where some of this venom comes from sometimes. But I imagine one thing we can definately agree. TESB is the best SW movie EVAH!!!!!!!!!!!

[zedhatch]

Nah, I won't resort to bulling, might not agree, might challenge, but not bully, not my style. 

but I tend to just toss out counter points of my POV and opinion, healthy debate never hurt anyone.  And as I said I'm not venomous against the prequels, but there is plenty that bugs me about them. 

Since you brought up Trek (which I also love) I also feel the overwhelming desire to point out that Trek probably made SW a possiblity.  Remember Trek was on the "rediscover" when SW was proposed and it probably opened the door for Science fictiony interests once again (It was pretty dead as a genre at that point).  However, on the same token SW made Trek TMP a possiblity.  In many ways they go hand in hand, but they are also apples and oranges. 

Still if you ever saw Fanboys, there was that funny sceane with the SW fanboys and the Trek Fanboys that made me laugh pretty hard. 

[zedhatch]

"OK I don't mean to call you out on this statement, but you just contradicted yourself, which is it, they complained or didn't?"
Yeah, I didn't know before hand that anyone even cared about the shockwave until I heard the complaints about it over the years. I thought I was clear on that, sorry.


"Well when you get down to it, almost any story can be argued to be good vs. evil (even when those lines are not clearly defined as much as in SW).  So just saying the whole saga is about Good vs. evil isn't a very compelling statement.  The fact is that the Lightsaber battles had nothing to them in the PT, most of what you just said was inferred rather than exponged opon in the PT.  However, in the OT you got something behind those battles. "
 
Well can't that be said for the OT too? The saber battles in ROTS were personal to me weather they were fully explained or not. AOTC yeah, not so much and neither TPM so much. But still think those fights weren't on any personal level, therefore you wouldn't the same emotion behind them as you would the L vs V fight. IMHO anyway.

OK I give you ROTS, I mentioned it earlier, but I did make a more sweeping statement above, so I will retract it a bit to say Ep 1 and 2. 

Now I will grant you on Ep 1, although I thought Maul deserved a bit more build up.

However, I felt something COULD have been done on that emotional level with Dooku, he was a formar Jedi, essentally he had betrayed the order, knew everyone on the concil.  There was potental that was wasted (And Christopher Lee had the chops to pull it off too, as he showed in LOTR with Gandalf vs. Saruman.  That fight had more emotional undertones than Ep 2 and they came out nearly the exact same time and the undertone was established much quicker in LOTR as well). 

[mb421]

"OK I don't mean to call you out on this statement, but you just contradicted yourself, which is it, they complained or didn't?"
Yeah, I didn't know before hand that anyone even cared about the shockwave until I heard the complaints about it over the years. I thought I was clear on that, sorry.


"Well when you get down to it, almost any story can be argued to be good vs. evil (even when those lines are not clearly defined as much as in SW).  So just saying the whole saga is about Good vs. evil isn't a very compelling statement.  The fact is that the Lightsaber battles had nothing to them in the PT, most of what you just said was inferred rather than exponged opon in the PT.  However, in the OT you got something behind those battles. "
 
Well can't that be said for the OT too? The saber battles in ROTS were personal to me weather they were fully explained or not. AOTC yeah, not so much and neither TPM so much. But still think those fights weren't on any personal level, therefore you wouldn't the same emotion behind them as you would the L vs V fight. IMHO anyway.

OK I give you ROTS, I mentioned it earlier, but I did make a more sweeping statement above, so I will retract it a bit to say Ep 1 and 2. 

Now I will grant you on Ep 1, although I thought Maul deserved a bit more build up.

However, I felt something COULD have been done on that emotional level with Dooku, he was a formar Jedi, essentally he had betrayed the order, knew everyone on the concil.  There was potental that was wasted (And Christopher Lee had the chops to pull it off too, as he showed in LOTR with Gandalf vs. Saruman.  That fight had more emotional undertones than Ep 2 and they came out nearly the exact same time and the undertone was established much quicker in LOTR as well). 

And that I will agree on. It didn't "bug me" but like Star Trek 3, it could've been better. Which is really my only gripe with the Prequels. I love the prequels, I enjoyed them very very much. But, I do have to admit, they could've been better. They could've been even more epic. I've always agreed with that.

[mb421]

In fact I've had many ideas on how to improve the prequels. Anakin wouldn't be 10 in TPM. I'd make him 14-16ish. You could still get the tenderness of him leaving his mother behind and it would make it a bit more believable that he could handle spacecraft and pod racers etc. (Even though I've heard of kids that young flying single engine planes under supervision) And then you could get an actor that could act better. Personally I don't like many child actors because most of them can't act. I mean I though Jake did ok, but still. Qui Gon and Obi Wan wouldn't have been Master and Apprentice. Obi Wan would've been a knight. Their relationship would've been much more like what Anakin and Kenobi had. That way, no continuity error about Kenobi being taught by Yoda. Of course Jar Jar would've just been toned waaay down. I like his look but...yeah.
In Ep 2 I would show the friendship btw Obi and Ani more. I'd keep some of the tension. I do feel that Anakin, like his son, would be headstrong and not listen to his master always. And of course if you've been told during your traing that one day you'll basically save the galaxy, well that would make you arrogant. Anakins fall was all about wanting power to me. Not for selfish reasons, at least not at first. As he slid more toward the dark side it would become selfish. I’d also add a few more scenes with Ani and Palpatine to show his relationship with him and have Palps very very very subtlety pull his strings. His relationship with Padme wouldn't have been as awkward either and I think they should've both tried to keep from falling in love with each other  and then at the end they’d realize their feelings could not be ignored. Him chasing after her was a bit creepy.  Also I would’ve left Jango Fett  in the story but not have him be the clones’ template. Just have him as a hired gun, don’t explain anything about him, maybe keep the scene in his apt. Cut out the fact the Boba is a clone . The whole droid factory thing would just be redone and leave out the Threepio gag. And as you stated, I would delve a little deeper into Dooku’s story. I did feel more weight could be placed on his story as he betrayed the Jedi order and the fight between him and Kenobi and Yoda should’ve been treated more personally.
Ep 3 I’d leave much of it alone. Maaayyybe tighten up the opening battle just a tad. I’d fix the battle droids voices so they sound like the Ep I droids and cut out the stupid humor.  I’d show more of Ani and Kenobi’s relationship, just and extra scene of two.  For Anakins turn, he turned because of his lust for power. That was his core reason. He knew it was wrong to lust for power and kept himself in check. In the effort to save Padme however, that gave him an excuse to gain more power. He did want to save his wife but his real, deep down desire was for power. I think it would’ve been interesting if that Anakin didn’t even know he was heading to the dark side, that Palpatine had Anakins head so twisted up and so fearful of losing what he loved, that he’s do anything to keep it, except join the dark side. But Anakin “moral vision” is so blurred he no longer knows whats right and wrong. And by the time we see him on Mustifar  he’s become so twisted and evil. Yet he still doesn’t consider himself part of the darkside. It wouldn’t be until he’s in the suit and Palpatine has told what he’s done and broke what was left of his spirit that he’d join the darkside, only because he thinks he has nothing left, not because he wants to. I’d also change the “NOOO” to some demonic sounding scream while he force throws and crushed everything around him.  The scenes with Padme and the other senators (which GL did film) should’ve been left in to at least show the seeds of the Rebellion. Watching them in order 1-6, yeah you can put 2 and 2 together fairly easy but it should be shown.  Also Padme wouldn’t have died, at least no right off. Padme would’ve lived on to take care of Leia on Naboo, but then we flash forward to find that she has died. This would give more strength to her character and we can see that she did try to fight on. But I do feel she should be shown to be weaker than what Leia will be. That way Luke redeems his father for his weakness and Leia redeems her mother for hers. The way the scene would go, we see Ani get put in the suit and becomes Vader.  At the same time the twins are born and we see Luke. Leia ,however, is never shown and it is implied that she died. (Obi Wan erases any all info on them both) We’d see Luke being delivered to Lars’ and then cut to a funeral procession where we see that Padme has died. We see Bale and other notable characters and see that they’ve aged. That’ll imply that this is some years later. The camera then pans to a little girl walking along with the procession. And then we cut to the shot the Star Destroyer bridge with Vader and the Emperor and we see the Death Star under construction. Since it’s already been established that this is a flash forward it’d bring the DS construction timeline more into continuity.   
Anyway, that’s what I’d change.

[Tamer]

Wow, works for me MB.