Author Topic: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)  (Read 18097 times)

Offline Tamer

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Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« on: December 22, 2015, 02:29:00 AM »
If you have seen the movie and feel like reviewing it in depth including revealing content that you liked or didn't like this will be the place.

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN THE MOVIE YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED THAT THE STORY AND PLOT WILL BE DISCUSSED.


Offline JDeck

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2015, 05:32:47 AM »
   What did you guys think about the new Death Star Planet? At first I thought it was too over the top, but as the movie progressed it reminded me of the Mcquarrie concept death Star. I like how it shoots out like a shotgun destroying multiple planets. I really liked the Mcquarrie concept imagery throughout the movie. Really cool.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 05:50:03 AM by JDeck »

Offline Mandalore25

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2015, 06:14:15 AM »
I don't get what your all talking about with crappy prequels, I like the prequels, at least they told their owns story, didn't contradict, not destroy all that came before it. I also like the original trilogy, but I paid to see the fresh, and new I was promised, not episode 4, with crappy comedy, things based on what's still cannon being contradicted, things that didn't make any sense, and miraculous non cause to effect scenarios.

   What did you guys think about the new Death Star Planet? At first I thought it was too over the top, but as the movie progressed it reminded me of the Mcquarrie concept death Star. I like how it shoots out like a shotgun destroying multiple planets. I really liked the Mcquarrie concept imagery throughout the movie. Really cool.

Was looking for something original, and notice how the brushed over a hole system being destroyed, Jar Jar Abrams didn't leave any time for anything to set in, and build. It was we did this, but that doesn't matter because we're doing something else, and then another thing. It should also be a smack to the face to the audience, that it's super unoriginal, when the difference needs to be told to them. Show versus tell, another problem with the movie, it showed a lot, thing after thing, but was an overcompensation from the prequels telling all but not showing.

Offline JDeck

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2015, 06:24:15 AM »
  It could have been way more original. But if it was too foreign people would say, ehh its not Star warzy enough. It is what it is and if you actually like the prequels better than this movie that's amazing. Blows my mind.

Offline Mandalore25

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2015, 06:37:43 AM »
Funny you say that, it wasn't Star Warzy enough for me. All new aliens and droids, for the most part anyway, didn't tether it into the Star Wars universe, they need to do what Lucas did after he made episode 4, he always mixed old with new, to tether it into the Star Wars Universe. Blows my mind you like it better than the prequels, like I said, I didn't want to see episode 4 in an unsavory flavor. Though at the same time older folks never excepted the prequels, I never understood why.

Offline JDeck

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2015, 06:45:49 AM »
To each their own. I still think EP.8 will be better since the characters are now established. Its one of those things, as a trilogy it will be good.  If your looking for a religious experience watching this movie you will definitely be disappointed.

Offline Mandalore25

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2015, 07:10:50 AM »
I suppose, since episode 7 is the final nail in the coffin for the EU, I was expecting at least an adequate replacement, and was super disappointed, it wasn't even close. The writing was the typical sub-par of a Star Wars movie, and the books it replaced were very well written. I understand Disney wanted to go their own direction, but like I said, I wanted at least a descent replacement.

Offline JDeck

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2015, 07:23:21 AM »
You can't possibly replace an entire library of EU with one movie. Be realistic. I never got into EU. I liked the underlying message of the movie. Doing what's right no matter the cost. Every OT movie had a different message. I can't see any message in the prequels at all. That's what makes a good story an underlying cause.

Offline Mandalore25

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2015, 08:56:41 AM »
Well not the library of course, but the Grand Admiral Thrawn trilogy, didn't hold a candle to it, and Disney mentioned that was gone first to make way for the movies. I didn't get that out of the movie at all, mostly because Finn, and Rey had crappy reasons to run away. I had no feels for Rey with the lack of story behind her abandonment, and it had no cost, for obviously her family, or whatever were never coming back. Or it could reference Han dying, too small a cost for me to care (1 life for many? simply collateral damage), my thought was 1 down 2 to go when he died ;D. The messages where pretty political in the prequels, and struggle between good, and evil, right and wrong, maybe I enjoy politics too much. There were messages in both the two trilogies, I'd argue against 7 for the previous reasons. I still relate well to Luke wanting to get away from Tatooine, wanting adventure, but he's way to whiny fro me to get attached. Solo was badass in the OT, but not in 7, got tired of him immediately after hearing he ran away, as I said, if he learned anything during the OT was that his friends needed him, and he needed them, but they disregard that. Leia a General doesn't make sense at all, when she's never been a solder, or had anything to do with the military. Any attachment to the OT characters I had were severed by the movie right away, so good riddance Han died, and I found the new characters unrelatable. The message I got was my childhood being slaughtered in front of me. An argument for Finn's non-conformism/your past doesn't make your future message would be better, but his character has holes in him, if he was raised to kill as a stormtrooper, he would have never realized it was wrong, they did say from birth, the psychology doesn't add up.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 08:59:04 AM by Mandalore25 »

Offline JDeck

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 09:04:30 AM »
Leia was a Commander from the beginning. She had the stolen plans she knew where the base was. She breifed pilots on hoth. She was a commander on endor. What on earth movies have you watched. Your way over thinking the "psychology of the movie. Fin did what he did because he knew it was right. Everyone. Knows what's right the choice they make is their own. Your right the prequels were like watching C-SPAN.

Offline Tamer

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2015, 09:18:25 AM »
I think for me I am gonna boil this movie down into Likes and Dislikes:

Likes:

Rey - she is one tough gal and I was glad to see she was the center focus

Finn - another great character. Smart enough to realize his flaws.

Poe Dameron - Would have love to have seen more of him

Nien Nunb and Ackbar - great to see them again

BB-8 - cute and is gonna be a great astro-mech to compliment R2

Special Effects - I didn't feel like I got too much CGI

Han - Acting was strong and humorous and spot on and he used the bowcaster

Chewbacca - another strong showing for Han's Furry Sidekick

Dislikes:

Predictable Story - talk about a rehash of A New Hope! At least we got a new story with the Prequels!

Leia - between the poor acting and her immovable lower lip I was hoping they would kill her

Han dead? It better not be for real JJ!

Rey, without any training, can do Jedi Mind Tricks and take down Kylo Ren?

Kylo Ren - Uh, he can take down an entire new Jedi Order and Luke, but can't handle Rey?

Luke - probably not his fault, but could you at least utter one line or grunt or something?

Map to Luke- Really? A Grand Jedi Master would leave a map who didn't want to be found? Or wouldn't have let Han and Leia know what he was up too? Or R2?

Luke sitting out the trouble? Shouldn't his connection to the force have said we have problems and I need to go help?

R2 being shut down due to depression? Uh, since when wouldn't that little droid have headed up the search single-handedly?

C3PO with his red arm and not telling us or showing us why? Talk about a missed opportunity there.

No Lando - nough said!

A great big ole set of Winter FO Troopers and Vehicles and no epic ground battle? Daggone it!

Another Death Star Type Super Weapon that uses up a sun? And if the resistance knew you had that thing wouldn't they leave? I mean why didn't they stay mobile like in TESB and ROTJ?

Leia telling Han to get her son back. Uh, I know she is the top general now (not sure why when the other ones were around, where were they btw?) but why wouldn't she have gone with Han to try and rescue her son. That is not the Leia I knew. And her bottom jaw didn't move? And the weak may the force be with you when Rey went to find Luke? And why didn't she go to help find Luke? She showed up in that dress when she should have shown up in smugglers or bounty hunters garb (would have loved to have seen the Boussh disguise again).

So Rey is the one to go find Luke? Uh, shouldn't have R2 or Leia or Chewie or heck even C3PO at least went with Rey to give her some legitamacy? And why didn't Finn go to as it seemed he had some Jedi Powers?

Captain Phasma - what a waste of a talented actress and she was in charge of the FO Troopers and got taken in by oldster Han and then didn't resist and then gave in and powered down the shields (another rehash btw) without resisting?

I also wanted a ROTLA crossover with the ground battle where a FO Trooper did all this fancy saber work only to have Han just blast him (like in Raiders). Opportunity for another movie I hope (JJ Han better not be dead!)

New Bad Guy Sith in charge? Uh, what was his name? I think we should have heard a bit more about him and how he corrupted Ben and became top Sith?

Why was Anakin's Saber in the new cantina? Wouldn't Luke have known the psychic force connection might be bad? And what was up with that weird flashback Rey had?

Wow, sounds like I got a bit nit picky, but feels good to vent. Did anyone else notice those things? I know it sounds like I found way more negative than good, but I still liked the movie a good bit.

Offline JDeck

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2015, 10:26:54 AM »
 I would have to agree with most of your points. There were several parts that I thought were unnecessary. Disney rushed the script. Michael Arndt was fired a month into preproduction, so Abrams and kasdan or whoever ended up writing it only had a short time. Their excuse was the SW universe is cyclical, which seems lazy to me. I think the reason they killed han was because Ford is sick of star wars. Compared to Ford's other characters like Indiana Jones, Air force one, witness, fugitive, Solo is way out of place. That's why in TESB they froze him in carbonite, because they didn't know whether he would return. He also asked Lucas to kill him in ROTJ. I don't think it was JJ'S idea. Fisher hasn't acted in many many years. She also lost a ton of weight so she probably had a facelift. Her speech was odd.
    Kylo ren I thought was awesome. He was an arrogant bastard. An amateur, you can tell by his lightsaber how it was kind of shotty craftmanship. He thinks he can take out Skywalker, but he would be mistaken. Rey kicked his ass but remember he got shot with a bowcaster, that crap hurts. Rey was badass too, absolutely no training, but she kicked ass. It shows the force is an ability that isn't necessarily learned. Luke never finished Jedi school now he's a master. Same stuff. My theory is she is Luke's daughter. She was waiting for him to return but instead she needed to seek him. That's why the lightsaber came in her possession. Destiny, a common theme in star wars.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 04:59:34 PM by JDeck »

Offline CamoDeafie

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2015, 02:11:20 PM »
I liked it myself. I understand that it seems like a rehash of Ep 4; but I was never much a big fan of the EU novels....

-Rey; I have a hunch she is the daughter of Luke. (unknown to her, maybe because Luke told her mother to never tell her about him being her father....) Also, I have a hunch that she is way younger than Kylo Ren/Ben...by several years. This could fit in with her mother having been one of the X-wing pilots that helped Luke with his New Jedi Order that got wiped out by Kylo. Also, for those who think Rey is Han's daughter, that doesnt really track with the lines in the movie, nor with the reaction Han had to her... He doesn't recognize her, and is impressed with her technical skills... but if she is Luke's daughter, it would follow she inherited Anakin's technical skills AND Luke's uncanny ability to communicate very well with astromechs. (BB8)

-no New Jedi Order; possibly, just possibly, Luke was not going to form an academy just yet, but wanted to do 1 on 1 training until he had enough experienced Jedi Knights and Masters to start the academy.. until Ben turned to the Dark Side and became Kylo Ren.

-Ben/Kylo, He seems way whinier/brooding/adolescent than Anakin, BUT perhaps this is due to him not having been in enough battles, or fights, not having experience facing Dark Side users such as Snoke. Recall that in Ep 1-2, Anakin was very inexperienced and young, and has desires to become powerful and such.... unlike his appearance in 3-6; where he was a leader, a warrior, and an accomplished Knight before turning to the Dark Side, and then 20 years of being a Dark Lord, leader of many units but still subservient to the Emperor.. I noticed that Kylo Ren does not get directly involved with strategy, tactics, or real planning.... He leaves that to General Hux who is a decent stand in for Tarkin. It seems more that Kylo is basically a thug agent who is trying to get the information to send Captain Phasma and her units to capture whoever/whatever.

-Captain Phasma; I was a little disappointed by her relative lack of involvement other than leading and being blunt. Hopefully she survived and will show up in ep8

-FO troopers, they seem much better trained than the Imperial Stormtroopers, maybe on the same level as the ARC Commandos of the Clone Wars era. I especially liked the scene with the baton/shield trooper versus Finn using a lightsaber, AND the fact Han basically shot him with a bowcaster (similar to ROTLA, but instead of Han facing off the guy, hes support)

-Poe Dameron, I like him. He's pretty cool... basically a combo of both Biggs Darklighter and Wedge Antilles. I hope we get to see more of him in Ep 8

-Finn, he is decent. Not the best, but not the worst. His doubts on the FO, and his training, his mind.... Basically he got shellshocked when his friend/comrade died in the attack on the village, and he started to think for himself then, and listened to the Village leader (Max Von Sydow, great actor, shamefully short scene) Finn might have force powers, or he might be just halfway good at melee combat and working in Sanitation might have given him time to think of other things other than combat. As to why Finn didnt go with Rey to Luke? He was injured and in a coma. It seems like he's not gonna come out of the coma in time to go with Rey.

-Supreme Leader Snoke, heres a rather unknown dark side user. I have a little theory about his origins though. He's the son, or one of the young Dark Side Adepts/Imperial Inquisitors from the Imperial era. Possibly his race is also long lived, and hes been cultivating his Dark Side skills without Palpatine catching on.

-Maz, here's a little alien who's lived for a thousand years, knows about the Force, but states explicitly that she is no Jedi, nor Sith. Perhaps she was a confidant/friend of Luke, helping him find the First Jedi temple, and in return, kept his Saber among other things... I thought I saw a piece in the chest that made me think of Padme, that Japhor snippet that Anakin made for her.. if it turns out that Luke traveled to Naboo to see the grave of his mother, and was given the snippet, perhaps he left it with Maz as a safekeeper for him. Perhaps he knew someone would come and find him, so imbued the saber with some Force memories as a way to tell if the one who brings it back is either worthy of it, or a way to guide his daughter to him if she needed him.

-Leia, Well.. She's getting old in age, perhaps she didnt want to risk her life again, not after all she has worked to keep the Resistance running and leading them from the back. She was a commander in the OT, practically a leader, and most likely a former Senator who has retired.


-Han Solo, I felt it fit his character very well that he would rather not face Leia over the failure of his son to stay on the Light Side, and over the fact that he is the father of a Dark side user. How would you feel, if your own son disowned you, and work against your dreams, and had a  desire to bring back the bad old days? Remember, in the OT, he had a tendency to run from big problems, sometimes coming back for his friends, but when Luke disappeared, and Leia went to become a general, maybe he felt he needed to get back in the old game of smuggling and making runs? How many people have done just that in their lives? Instead of working up the courage to stay committed to the path, they go back to the old ways that they know, and not trust people anymore, especially after losing his son to the Dark Side?

-Chebacca. He did good in this. Believable and fitting his character. Although my hunch is that he's tired of being Han's conscience every so often, and Han not listening to him... he decided to not argue with Han anymore and just correct him whenever he misstates something.

-Droids, Well they could have been handled better for the OT pair, but I like the idea of R2D2 getting rather old and his circuits not working as well as they should be... Remember how often he would get damaged and rebuilt? I am anxious to see how R2D2 is in Ep 8. Hopefully we will see Luke fly his old X-wing if he kept it somewhere around the island. I am also curious to see how R2D2 and BB8 get along. I like BB8's character and behavior.

-tech shown, its pretty consistent with the entire movie canon so far. Chewie's bowcaster seems a bit over powerful, but remember that scene in Ep 4 where Han and Chewie chase a squad of troopers into a platoon room? One of the troopers basically got knocked away/flew away from a blast from the bowcaster (its a single shot in the scene), so it follows the canon so far. Hans blaster makes it comeback, a little worn, but that make sense for the age. The ships are all refreshed designs, and I love that they put an actual 2nd seat, and turret for the gunner in the new TIE fighters. The Millennium Falcon is shown with new problems and a new communication dish which is a nice reference to Lando accidentally ripping off the dish in ep6. The new shuttles and the Star Destroyer are also good looking ships. I am hoping to see a new style A-wing or B-wing, possibly a brand new Y-wing design as well. I could have sworn I saw a couple of 4-legged things in the background where our band of heroes were standing by the cliffside..I hope to see similar things in Ep 8 up close and personal.

-aesthetics, overall I like the way everything looks, down to the Resistance X-wings being battle worn and used... Likely they were former Republic Navy ships before the FO came to be.... The lack of the Republic Navy or Republic Fleet is explained away by the first usage of Starkiller base. The planets, and the styling of everything is good to me. I love that they show a sand pit swallowing the wrecked TIE and it blowing up from the reactor... as well as the wrecks all over Jakku.

Plot wise, it is a bit thin in spots, but overall it fits the OT theme and PT theme of cyclical problems.


To sum up, personally, with what JJ Abrams had to work with, and with the time crunch, this is a decent movie, one I will watch again in theater and most likely buy DVD or BR disc if I get a BR player :)


Offline Phatty

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2015, 06:11:54 PM »
OK, a few points of reference here, I'm not going to argue or debate with folks for no reason because we each have our own feelings:  Disney and Lucasfilm have said from the beginning that they have almost completely disregarded the EU for the new films.  This isn't news or a change in direction, it was the plan from the beginning.  There was so much from the EU that they'd NEVER be able to do all of it, and would leave fans angry.  They would also be angry if it wasn't exactly like the books, because that has been proven to be impossible.  Look at every book-turned-movie ever made. Also, if you remember from ANH, no one ever saw what the people on Alderaan were doing or the aftermath of that, so the destruction of what appeared to be Coruscant (while still huge) isn't anything new.

Now, I will agree that it was a bit far fetched that Rey was able to combat Kylo Renn with no training, sure.  However, if I were a betting man, I'd be willing to be that Rey is the daughter of Han and Leia, and the know it.  She was dropped off to hide her from Ben Solo when he turned to the Dark Side.  She's strong like he is, and by Episode IX, we will see them square off.  Yes, that did happen in the EU between Jacen and Jaina (and Starkiller Base was also mentioned in the EU).  I think the reason Han was so quick to accept Rey and bring her aboard and her knowledge of mechanics was because he knew who she was after she said where she came from.  Leia knew it also, probably due to the Force.  Luke knew it when she presented him with his old lightsaber.  it calls to Rey because she has the blood of Skywalker in her, just like her brother, mother, and uncle.  Just my feeling on it, so we'll have to see how it turns out.

I was devastated to see Han die.  We ALL knew it was coming, but it didn't make it any easier.  Oddly enough, Kathy from Lucasfilm has said that EVERYONE present during the release party (Ford included) will be back for the next film, without exception.  In what capacity, I don't know.  But it's Chewey and Rey now.

I do find it odd when they find these "uncharted star systems," in the movies, books, and video games.  You'd think that it'd be pretty well mapped out after millennia, but I guess not.  The fact that Luke was hiding in such a system isn't far fetched, and makes sense.  Yoda was hidden in such a system as well.  I don't think Leia went with Rey because she knew Rey needed to make the connection with Luke on her own.  Jedi intuition. 

Captain Phasma isn't done.  A small, and agreed wasted role in this one, sure, but not the end of her.  More importantly, who is this Snoke?  They don't refer to him as "Master" Snoke, but we know he's a Sith Lord.  Where did he come from?  Is he indeed Darth Plageuis as fans have speculated?  Who knows yet, but it will be interesting to see how he completes Renn's training.

I do love the McQuarrie references throughout.  That was classic.  Overall, I'm very happy with the movie.  It brought back a lot of the original feel, with original characters, but fleshed out an all new feel all the same.  A year and a half until Episode 8, and only a year until Rogue One (between ROTS and ANH), so we've got plenty more to get excited for.

Offline Tamer

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Re: Star Wars Episode VII (Spoiler Alert)
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2015, 07:29:42 PM »
Lots of great points in here. Keep it coming folks.